funding for this program has been provided by the station and more than two hundred sixty other public television stations nationwide and by grants from exxon corporation and at and t and the bowl system company in a soviet city a rookie dissident physicist under a soccer off and his wife and their protest hunger strike in moscow as a result of their strike solid authorities give pretty secure foley's alleged say their parents to travel to the united states where in boston the husband she married by proxy sakharov stepson alexi send enough waits for her rival tonight a victory for human rights it's big the peaks been the case before bidding for nearly three weeks the world has watched sixty year
old andres soccer off and his wife yelena bonner take on the soviet state where the hunger strike is their only weapon yesterday they ended a seventeen day fast having apparently moved the soviet leadership to relent and when the young woman to join his bonus on in the united states soccer off a nuclear physicist as the father of the soviet hydrogen bomb he lost all his public honors for the human rights activism which brought him the nobel peace prize in nineteen seventy five two years ago he was exiled to the city of god a two hundred fifty miles east of moscow where no foreigners are permitted nurse alexander was told today that she could visit the sakharov soon gorky over the weekend that their travel papers for the trip to america would be ready on monday there is some speculation in the west that was alexei was released may mean that the kremlin is prepared to expel soccer of himself tonight the meaning of the soccer of victory you robin young woman whose freedom under zucker up a new line of honor past and forceful wife alexis and in all use the sauna ms bronner by a previous marriage and is now a
graduate student in mathematics at brandeis university waltham massachusetts it's immigrated to this country four years ago with his first wife and their six year old child there was a divorce any the night lisa and a proxy marriage in montana last year mr simon operas with us tonight from the studios of public station wgbh in boston you believe it's really going to happen on the seminal our listener do of customer to correct blown think i immigrated to notice this alone i was separated from my first performance the latest news from moscow is outspoken the horn use it in the morning and she told me richard got to cables from cork today outside but how parents and involve cables the messages assume they ended a hunger strike from the language of these cables on now brother convinced that that is true
then the hunger strikers who little shade is also out to go to go to pursue our parents to more i'm sure there were more school by now are two of the first time in more than thirty that the someone is allowed to sail parents and vivid and post them at the curvature of those interviews from them well first let me apologize for the mistake in the introduction and then when when do you expect to come to the united states is there any yemeni i any i carry is there any itinerary in mind thor our camera this shows that the no vote on monday she should get a visa and uses trickery and the day after the vote wasn't going to take some time and the manpower for us is slow but in the present situation then swoop of it home and that is going to have to
move and documents what is what is an indication of an interview over other helpers though the fact is that the obamas allowed to see them after taken to the hospital for a swim it then there's no no separate them a separate hospitals so they don't have any direct information to know that before that they can to the cost that the us that the plot was really bird and unconditionally to do serious years right now i and i'm sure that they knew best medical help available at the moment and i would hope that they have a trick to transfer to more script of that academy of science course but the personal physician's of my parents did you hurt want to robert mcneil said at the beginning of the program that there is already begun to be speculation as to whether or not you or your mother and stepfather maybe
now expelled from the country what you're feeling about that you think that might happen they dug up an indication of growth of course a person who didn't learn to write a hectic student here in my my opinion it would be over a solution of all however i am afraid that that this premature to speculate and that you should be afraid of the victims should do to try to change the fact that they've had to give in to this hunger strike on my appearance by our virtual under arrest right now and if there is no pressure from the us and the favorite after the over to leave the hospital the commission to keep them and those who tried to imposing even stricter conditions of life and close priority the hunger strike became human draped in exurban not to go to bonds somewhere else to the police who are far more scared that's the main concern and i hope that the visitor allies
among the people who really care and are concerned about the faith of my parents and that there's going to be a pressure over their subconscious so that that occurred you think well they they're like in court he was already very restrictive laws are non existent words they're much so my father was forbidden to see in the phone calls to make any phone calls she was forbidden to get an e mail here believed the carpenters was guarded by policemen on the court every time she would give up watching that there would be four or five when close political and human vision telescope over time his exile was completely legal he was banished to work in the vault and a court hearing in a court procedure of the sentences are unimaginable but says that in the twentieth century in what is called civilized country and this is just on comprehensible i
would call it a song about torture allies not with that cannot continue a clear plurality if they want to keep the scientific exchange open if they want to have normal relations with the united states and the western countries how the tradition to change with migration they're allowed to freely choose their place of raisins exactly and i'm quoting from the author homer ism from his response in the house of representatives two days ago the senate up like it now an assessment of such cross importance to the soviet union and the authorities on the lincoln offers a soviet scientist you know zucker affleck an officer a prominent in the distance dissident movement in the soviet union before coming to the united states in nineteen seventy four he now teaches physics at a private school in tarrytown new york and it helps to editor chronicle of human rights in the ussr published here first of all how important victory if it is a victory for the dissident movement in the soviet union as this the first to fall is
a very important victory for several friend for all was because several of his now lives in danger and because of that it's a great moral support for world uses horror is a soviet union and presents or a free day in the soviet in and outside for foreign ngos like ours so that's a tremendous boost or more elements a day and is this i mean these are rather overwhelming feeling china das says is fifteen more latitude wines minister ascending off just said the hair kgb were forced to give him as hunger strike why why were they forced to give and what is the source of mr sakharov scott first before it's not only her but mr suttles power but it served as his personality and the way it is that he's known for all of the world as one of the rare bird man steps into one of the best human beings are living
now in this planet and be one of the best candidate because he learned he'd be he political work units had or he is mind and higher than anything him into leaving the fate of the people in the soviet union and human rights activists are any people will suffer prosecutor korean labor camps a mental hospital and he doesn't care about the issue so whatever's was in person at the end she only wears a world she's feminine and the reason why she resembles that of that hunger strike as i understand was an area not just that she's feminine that they're about things you felt of these no one is alexander was persecuted because of humid was eventually innocent victim go for what he did and for him it wasn't tolerable he doesn't really care what happens is he in both hitler and that's
always for fifteen years almost i would say seven years and years that have opened campaign for human rights in the soviet union she was soon pulled interests are suffering people though first things one of his own the soviet authorities have never had any compunction about shutting up or silencing the people they really wanted to what prevents them from silencing or or illuminating in some other way well it's really difficult for low for them and the windows eight is their got said that reflects is that they have to get anybody who would speak out and criticize him openly as they still understand the us it's either a forced to fall because normally winter so that people realize how much she did for so the defense standing his contribution are other early reports of solid economy he was an encyclopedia has a severe times here of socialist labor visions very rare
arab word in the soviet union said and lived he became very prominent also the west that what scientists in the world built on visas but all of them know who suffered for years and he became almost course when you move toward the world is yours what is the significance of the fact that the soviet academy of sciences which is one of the foremost members publicly announce the end of his hunger strike now does that mean that throughout the soviet union people will know that there was a hunger strike and why yes they will know they won't know exactly ryan is their stories it publishes newspaper insist it was very confusing can try to hide the issues but people will know that some people from what has happened in the name of soccer it was known as a pheasant was hunger strike is very important because they consider somebody went on hunger strike because of some basic interest of different is something you now you just heard that was to send enough said he feared that the kgb might try to avenge their serve than the increased the restrictions on soccer of
exile and banishing even further from moscow what what is your yet says it's very possible i can assess the bedspread said but it's very possible and it's very important for results people will suffer of jamaican it's a small but important victory possible to try to continue to complain that his defense the monkeys aren't more storm maybe when anyone going to get him out of the soviet union do you think it's likely there might choose to banish him just to get rid of the trouble well they didn't do it but i didn't invent a german tax bill expires in yet they still haven't done it although they have enough trouble from him so he says they have their own ideas how dangerous he is of course is ridiculous and postings of soccer over this he is a moral principles will start to speak about some pacific and for information whatever he knew
they were the importance of his now hear this and i know humanize them understand that you know you wouldn't tell the secrets of the sonar images speak out how he believes says the west has to behave toward the soviet union but not there you see his sickness but i'm not sure that those people in in kgb in higher level it's not a job it's funny girls as hospitals over the fate of soccer they understand they are things they're understanding of such people as some of his very poor and because of suspicion of breeding pens the soccer of situation has been closely monitored by officials in the us state of oregon was particularly by those in the bureau of human rights in humanitarian affairs the assistant secretary of state in charge of that bureau in those issues as elliot abrams he was officially sworn in yesterday he was the assistant secretary for international organization affairs before taking the new post carrie what is your analysis or the
soviet union unlike the soviets responded to international pressure diplomatic and public pressure here and in europe and russia really got to be too great to said that they saw that the damage to them if they had failed soccer of a continued with the hunger strike was more than they could bear besides a statement from president reagan what did the united states government to either directly out through our bureau through our embassy in moscow or whatever in order to influence the situation he made a number of diplomatic efforts both in washington or elsewhere with the soviets at the very highest levels and more in contact also with some of the other in government but we made a number of efforts and this was basically the us message to the city and the method basically was that the relationship of the united states and the west to the soviet union could not remain untouched by the soccer of situation that the feeling
in the populace in the united states and we thought in the west in general they're very strong about this case and made river important that the saudis understand just how strongly we felt rather than any indication jet that the soviet union might expel soccer often ms palmer i don't know who share mr sam enough fear that the soviet union might treat them worse now than i did before it's possible i think the soviets will be trying to show to their own people that this is not an pattern of allowing civil liberties and human rights and that may in fact be a crackdown the crack down enough for the crackdown in a nano soccer out a lot of really referring there to the situation in general but none of that is conceivable that the situation with the soccer history and does not improve gulf the sun enough says the west must keep the heat on tuesday and on the stage there to do that it's worth
keeping both diplomatically and through public pressure as we learn from those cases the soviet to respond to significant amounts of pressure from the west the problem in general i think comes from the fact that soccer was so famous he's really unique the only other figure like him would be solzhenitsyn who is already out there for the task it seems to me is to maintain this kind of pressure even in the case of individuals who are not as famous as soccer isn't that easy to do if they require both government effort and the effort of private groups to keep the pressure on and keep the soviets where the fact that everyone in the west is watching their behavior as the united states through whatever device made it known in the soviet union of the soviet leadership that soccer optimist why would be welcome here in the united states and blankets and understood for some years that they would be granted visas to come to the us they had indications as i recall from various universities to come here early efforts being made not to get them out of the country and to the united states that you know we've
discussed the sort of situation with the soviets really for a number of years and i know unfortunately have no indication from the soviets that there's any loosening up on their position on that special situation here that mr simon out back to the question of a fear that he has that girl that his parents by now be treated even more brutally than i have been before what could the united states do if in fact that happens you know again the diplomatic efforts really and publicity that is what we try to do is to keep in touch with people in moscow so that we know exactly what is happening to the soccer owns and can get that information out in the west the best thing we can do i think is to make sure that the information is circulated as widely as possible and to make sure that the soviets understand just how strongly the feelings are on this in the west and an assurance do you see any connection at all between the soviet union's decision on this matter and the fact that the soviet union also is conducting a public relations campaign aimed toward the arms
control that sort of thing and that they had to do this in order to be a consistent i was wondering about that myself but i think it probably had something to do with that they really do have a massive propaganda campaign underway now was in europe and you gather both ways as a cat pose as a great hero of peace and then behaves is bestial manner towards people in the country when the rest of the world is watching so i would suppose the timing was very favorable for this particular case as well the helsinki accords under which the soviet union in syria accepted to observe human rights like freedom of travel have very active monitoring groups in the west including this country i deny or is vice chairman of the helsinki watch and a similar group america's watch which monitors human rights in this hemisphere deny or as the former national director of the american civil liberties union what can you add all this up is to hire an observation of human rights in the soviet union and how important a
step is it so what will it mean to other soviet dissidents oh i think it's enormously imports and i think it demonstrates that pressure works i think that that should be obvious to anyone who has been concerned with human rights but it's wonderful to see it work out with the soviet union which has attempted to be more immune to pressure than any other country in this instance we pressure took the form of front page stories certainly all around western europe in the united states and the soviet union is concerned about its relations with the united states and west europe and eventually have succumbed to that pressure and how much do you think it's unusual for the president of the united states to make statements and then served as well reagan himself spoke of how much do you think that we can i think about that had they an important part of why i suspect that statements public and private by western european leaders had at least as much of a part to play do you fear as
we heard other people suggest that there might be no a crackdown or at least a demonstration by the soviet authorities that this wasn't to be taken by other dissidents as a new pattern well i certainly fear it i'm not saying that i expect that i think that if the public pressure can be sustained it will help to mitigate that any kind of crackdown i hope that the soccer arms themselves will be exempt because if there is any special persecution of and i would imagine that that would again arouse the kind of worldwide attention that was focused on this matter what can ordinary citizens to care about this congress as well i think that ordinary citizens can be vocal through various organizations i think that works i think that ordinary citizens can demand of their government that they government speak out on human rights matters we heard mr abrams just now take a very forceful position on the responsibility of the government
and to speak out publically of the previous nominee for the post which he now holds hadn't entirely opposite point of view i think the status quo is journalism registry beaver i think of the fact that mr abrams it holds that point of view reflects lee odden voice of public opinion in the united states and so we do on the question of what's called linkage that is tying in soviet observance of human rights with things the soviets want made contact and perhaps arms limitation is this more a more propitious time for the west to push for that you knew the parents of a desire for some answer that i think the soviet union always wants a lot of things from the west and therefore i think it's always propitious to pursue linkage i think the soviet union wanted an end to the grain embargo and it would've been a good idea to obtain a human rights concessions from the soviet union in exchange for ending the grain embargo i think the soviet union wants certain kinds of arms agreements the united states and i think the united states should take the position that those are arms
agreements i require good faith and demonstrating good faith on human rights agreements is an important way of evaluating whether the soviet union will demonstrate good faith on arms agreements are you satisfied that the reagan administration was making that linkage firmly in the well i would like more to be done and always like more but i would say that the part of the reagan human rights policy that i've been most enthusiastic about has been the way that the reagan administration has operated in the context of the helsinki talks which are continuing and the dread way out i think the reagan administration has very strongly made a link between human rights matters and security and trade matters too is the administration also features a list and i just laid out yesterday is the issue that remains unsettled is whether we're going to be able to get agreement on a balanced package which would have a human rights component and a security or military component and we have made it very clear that we have really
no more compromises to make human rights questions setting up bacterial you got dirt elliott abrams here now assistant secretary of state what would you like for him in the united states to keep the pressure on issues at the very beginning no option that we discuss the business to an investment many parents and humility as she was pretty good people are there almost three weeks ago in the hunger strike was a tremendous but i think on the part of the administration and the part of the senate and congress and mr evans was right and in india too the color codes in this in the ticket holder oversaw the administration always on i don't want to discuss it robert bork show dan and i think that
mr edmonds has hurt perspective and i expect that that convergence issue and just as effective when this notice it so now what that what would you like for a united states that is continue with nine when it is gone or even to suggestions i let the obama administration the villain on soccer's know i don't know much what he hadn't heard of the news division at the devotion as before i was very pleased that right by his statements from nice severance either the newspaper stand by presidential their message about human rights that says that the president considers social and less important and i definitely want them to pay attention to human rights of the soviet union and in other campuses well station and businesses is union is he's in a very poor shape today many people are arrested recently there a sibling that's historian our senior against it and she was sentenced
to four years of labor camp just because you collected material for a historical collection of documents old planets there and he got four years of labor camp for his professional a professional mortgages using armored car i'm trying to know that the charge against him was misusing his library card imagine that any of us got four years in prison for love and the senate are punished anyone to make common a comment this was a lot of questions about the descendants of a crime gun auction of the longest sentence on any dissent and so you can actually were crowned on was part of a solar solutions live long term it is going on right now to develop pre it was made in moscow are i know i know exactly when they're on the open people are arrested at a surrogate for those who bo was alone in charge of the foundation for hope of affirmative defense of prisoners of consciousness and the
soviet union thank you robin seventy five only one knew what was produced by wnet solely responsible for its content will allow funding for this program have been provided by the
station and other public television stations and by grants from exxon cooperation and at and t and a bell system company in a new ad do you well only men named him
